I have to admit, I’m a huge fan of Penn and Teller. When I heard that they were going to be covering Wal-Mart on an upcoming episode of Bullshit I was extremely excited. Like many small and medium size towns across the country, Wal-Mart hysteria has come to my home town of Longmont, Colorado and I was in the front lines of the debate.
Back in 2003 I had decided to run for City Council here in Longmont, and at that time Longmont was looking to annex a plot of land right outside of town by request of the Wal-Mart corporation. The plan was to build a new Super Wal-Mart store on the lot, and the city wanted to get the tax revenue. Typical to these decisions, the public outcry was immense. The anti Wal-Mart groups arranged speakers from all across the country to come and petition our City Council against the annexation. Of course, in the end cooler heads prevailed and the City Council voted to annex the land, and now we have a brand new Super Wal-Mart (to complement the smaller Wal-Mart across town).
Penn and Teller did an okay job in this episode, I’m just a bit disappointed that it didn’t go into more detail around the pure capitalistic nature of Wal-Mart, and really get down into the philosophy behind it. As anyone who knows me can attest, I’m a hardcore Libertarian. I live, eat, and breath free market capitalism. Nothing gets me more excited than seeing it in action, and nothing pisses me off more than special interest groups with agendas trying to stop it.
You see, Wal-Mart isn’t evil, capitalism isn’t evil, outsourcing and sweat shops arent’ even evil. They are all the natural product of a free market doing what it does best. Wal-Mart is one of the most amazing American success stories ever. A company that was able to find efficiencies in everything they do. Reinvest their profit into smart growth, cut costs where they can, negotiate bulk buying deals with manufacturers. There is a reason why Wal-Mart is the number one retailer in the United States, it is because they are the best at doing what they do, selling us household items at cheap prices. Wal-Mart isn’t here to put small business out of business. If that is a by-product of giving the consumer choice, then that is the essence of the free market.
What is evil is groups that preach the “social good”. Perhaps this is because I just finished reading it, but I’m reminded of Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand. The world is so concerned with the social welfare of the disadvantaged, the poor, the needy, that they “loot” from those who are productive members of society to give to the unfortunate. The same thing is happening with these anti Wal-Mart groups. They are going around spouting about the evils of Wal-Mart, using the plight of the common man as their evidence. Their motive may be well placed, but the outcome of such actions will eventually mean that Wal-Mart won’t be able to open new stores. They won’t want to deal with the headache and the legal loopholes that are put in place against them. Like the example Penn and Teller gave in Chicago requiring Wal-Mart to have a higher minimum wage than other retailers (Which gets me on an entire different minimum wage tangent, which I will save for a future post). The hurdles they will encounter will be so high that it will impact the profitability of a given store, and then they won’t have the justification to build it. What happens then? Who really suffers? Is it Wal-Mart, or is it the common man that now has to pay more for his television set at the local electronics store? Or is it the unemployed mother who still can’t find a job because nobody will hire her? Maybe it is the city who now has less sales tax because their residents are driving to the next town over to shop at Wal-Mart?
One of the great things about this country is that not only do we get to vote on election day. We get to vote every time we go to the store. Consumers vote with their dollars. They are saying that they want a higher quality of living for less money. They are saying that Wal-Mart offers them what they want at the best price. If the established businesses are adversely affected by the opening of a new Wal-Mart then that is the product of the kind of change the market is dictating. To survive, the established businesses must learn to adapt to the changing economy. People want convenience and they are casting their ballot loudly and clearly with every dollar they spend at these “big box” stores.
How many Longmont-based stores did you annex space for so they could build facilities that go through the building commission like goose shit through a tin horn? How may local store owners did you give tax incentives to so they would do business there? How many other business did the town agree to improve the roads to support the increase in traffic? Walmart or Target (yes the City took it in the ass from them too) wants a new store and the cities bend over.
I am a huge fan of Penn and Teller’s show and I am disappointed that they didn’t mention the government subsidies of Wal-Mart that give them an unfair competitive advantage, which should be the antithesis of anyone claiming to be a libertarian. Walmart isn’t evil, but it certainly competes unfairly when it pressures governments into paying it to come to their town, and that’s not capitalism or libertarianism. I don’t have a problem with Walmart paying low wages and offering low prices but do they really need my tax dollars too?
Wall Mart is a fucking, dirty and, yes sure, evil thing. They are not evil because they selling poor things to, it´s my opinion,
high prices. They are evil because they are forcing their employees to be their fucking slaves. Wal- Mart isn´t good for the
U.S.A. and it isn´t good for germany and europe, it isn´t neither needed for nothing. Fuck Wal- Mart, fuck the Capitalism-
System and fuck Patriotism. Sometimes you American people just amaze me in your views.
Bye and sorry for my Bad English.
I watched the Penn and Teller special regarding Wal-Mart. I agree that Penn and Teller did just an okay job in this episode. I was alsoa bit disappointed that it didn’t go into more detail around the pure capitalistic nature of Wal-Mart, and really get down into the philosophy behind it. Wal-Mart is always accused of putting every small business guy out of business, but the hard cold facts are (and Penn and Teller illustrated this perfectly in the town that was dying) that if the small guy wants to survive, he/she must adapt. I have a friend who lived in northern Colorado, tiny town, who opened up a couple of coffee shops inside of Wal-Mart (Kicks Coffee I think) and I thought wow, Wal-mart is actually giving the small guy a shot. I’ve seen where they’ve done that on an episode of CNN Age of Wal-Mart. I know Kicks Coffee was a tough deal to do and the greeting card was difficult but hey, who said business was supposed to be a walk in the park? So, the bottom line is that Sam Walton was an entrepreneur just like anyone else. His company grew and grew…and what they company he built is supposed to stop growing and play fair for the little guy? I don’t think so. What, if my friend’s Kicks Coffee became the biggest coffee cafe would he come under attack also? Face it folks, whether you’re doing business with Wal-Mart, Target, Home Depot or any other big box retailer, you’d better be ready to fight for your market share.
Libertarian supports cheap exploitive Chinese Communist labor practices, film at 11.
Reminds me of that picture of the president’s grandfather posing with Adolph Hitler. Ask yourself how you’d look standing next to Mao Tse Tung in a nice glossy Wal-Mart print, also available on picture CD.
To the Josh dude. Man, you gotta be kidding me. Sounds like your defending Wal-Mart over your friend at http://www.kickscoffee.com. Let’s get something straight, exploiting cheap Chinese labor is not the american way. We abolished slavery a long time ago, so since big businesses can’t do it in the U.S., they move the slavery overseas. It’s that simple. Kicks Coffee Cafe or not, wake the @#?!!! up dude.
Cool D and Me So Thorny I didn’t realize my comment was going to be analzyed like it was. So let me elaborate. I agree with you both about the Chinese labor which for me is another issue altogether. So, I believe that companies must be able to adapt in order to compete even with large companies. I didn’t want to get into my Wal-Mart bashing mode, primarily because I could write a book about their tactics as they are nasty. So I do apologize if I sound like a Wal-Mart supporter because THAT I am certainly not. Upon further review of my earlier post, I would have positioned it differently. And yes, I was in support of my friend at Kicks Coffee as he too was on the receiving end of Wal-Mart’s nasty side, even though he had tons of great press coverage and a great business. So, add me to your list of two thumbs down on Wal-Mart.
The thing I find most telling is that the other big retailers never seem to get mentioned. You would think that if Wal Mart were so evil that you would see a lot of comparisons between Wal Mart and Target or K Mart. The truth is there is no difference in how these companies operate. The people that started the anti-Wal Mart hysteria did so because Wal Mart starting opening Super Wal Marts and did not try to get the grocery workers to join a union. Try finding out what organization rents office space to wakeupwalmart.com.
As for me I like being able to buy good products at a good price. And if Wal Mart is the best proce I will shop there otherwise I will look around.
Are you kidding me? Outsourcing and sweatshops are good things? Tainted lead products and poisoned pet food is good too huh? Buying from a communist country who doesn’t give a rat’s ass about it’s own people, the Americans who buy their crap or the environment in general is capitalism at it’s best. How are people supposed to pay for these “cheap” products if the jobs that were here are now outsourced to these great models to capitalism. You self righteous sycophant please quit your councilman kick back job and please move to China to work at the sweatshop of your choice(well, the Chinese Communist government’s choice). Tainted half assed made products sold back to a country that won’t deal with Cuba because their leader is a communist is the true nature of why the rest of the world is in disgust with this country. Hipocrites! Greed for the fortunate share holders at the expense of everyone else that actually has to work is neither success nor good for anyone but a small few. Ask Califoria or the workers how wonderful of a corporation Walmart is. You don’t practice what you preach How is getting rid of manufacturing job that actually pay living wages a good thing?
If Wal-Mart had to depend only on high-cost American suppliers, it never would have grown the way it has and its sales would be far less than they are. Yet critcs always imply that somehow Wal-Mart could have done things differently, kept more production and jobs in America, without paying a cost. No alternative scenario is ever presented.
Furthermore, the implication that Chinese “sweatshops” are somehow unfair to the Chinese worker shows ignorance. Many workers in third-world sweatshops have left even harder, lower-paying jobs in agriculture to move to garment factories. Moreover, sweatshops are a normal step in economic development. Singapore, Malaysia, South Korea, and Hong Kong all had sweatshop jobs thirty years ago. They don’t now because workers in those countries have acquired skills and employers have accumulated capital. That’s what will happen in Honduras, Nicaragua, China (seriously, watch for China to kick all other asses very soon…they’re the next super power) and other poor countries—if we only let it.
Moving on, the main beneficiaries of Wal-Mart’s low-price policy are the poor, who can now afford products that would be out of their reach if not for Wal-Mart, improving their lives and raising their standard of living.
Wal-Mart, all by itself, was responsible for a significant amount of the productivity we have seen in this country over the last twenty years. In a 2001 report, the McKinsey Global Institute, a respected think tank, concluded that Wal-Mart’s managerial innovations had increased overall productivity by more than all the investments in computers and information technology of recent years:
* Wal-Mart’s innovations include large-scale (big box) stores, economies of scale in warehouse logistics and purchasing, electronic data interchange, and wireless barcode scanning.
* These gave Wal-Mart a 48 percent productivity advantage over its competitors, forcing them to innovate as well, thus pushing up their productivity.
* The McKinsey study found that productivity improvements in wholesale and retail trade alone accounted over half of the increase in national productivity between 1995 and 1999.
A 2004 study from the prestigious National Bureau of Economic Research found that Wal-Mart has a substantial effect on reducing the rate of inflation. For example:
* It typically sells food for 15 percent to 25 percent less than competing supermarkets. Interestingly, this effect is not captured in official government data.
* Fully accounting for it would reduce the published inflation rate by as much as 0.42 percentage points or 15 percent per year.
Ignoring these beneficial macroeconomic effects, critics focus almost exclusively on the loss of jobs allegedly caused by Wal-Mart. However, academic research by economist Emek Basker of the University of Missouri contradicts this point, finding that Wal-Mart permanently raises local employment.
Suck on that.
I do not understand the glorification of small business jobs. I worked at several small businesses when I was younger. I started at a training wage, less than minimum wage, and then moved up to minimum. Walmart came into town and actually paid a couple dollars higher.
As for the sweat shops, we seem to forget our own history and development. Sweat shops were common in the US. Simply stating that we should not buy from so called “sweat shops” is evil because without those jobs many in developing countries would have nothing. I have friends from China and my wife is from Thailand. Many of those manufacturing jobs are vastly better than working in a rice paddy. Ever worked in a rice paddy? Talk about back breaking. Of course, that is even if you can get a job at all. Many of these countries the average worker is making less than 50 dollars a month. So if you are going to complain, then you have to provide an alternative. In fact, go and try to implement your alternative rather than complaining. Walmart bashing helps no one (and I am not even a big fan of Walmart, like Penn I prefer Target).
In my town, the new Wal-Mart is the one paying for road improvement and a shiny new protected intersection on what was once a dangerous piece of road. Sure, the shoppers are actually the ones paying for it, but they pay by choice, by shopping there. Sounds like the system is working.
First off i did work at wal mart and well…. i did not find it funny when they open this topic up. WAL MART DOES NOT and i repeat NOT PAY 10$ AN HR. to ANY EMPLOYTEE other than managers… and the golden question would be how many mangers in a store… a handfull…. 5 to 6 at best… how many employees???? now you ask well that would about about 200 per store and more…. and the ultimate question you dying to ask at this point how much do all the lower grade workers get paid… 6$ AN Hour….. NO RAISES no benmefits… nothing… ye si agree for those who say wal mart sucks… it does for a job and when someoen is gonan tell me on my off time,. my relaxation time in my night when im un winding that al mart.. the job that sucked balls in my opijon pays pretty well… well penn and Tell can take a flying F@@@ for all i care… there nto funyn and they think its funnhyot spread sh@t around as facts… maye if quit prouncing around like 2 fags at a boy geroge concert and got there facts straight thy woudl know such simple things…
Chad “LaFarge”, you should really stop your rambling. That is easily one of the worst comments I have ever read. With one quick pass I caught 19 mispelled words. It really doesn’t surprise me that you worked at Wal Mart, but instead of trying to downplay your “job”. If I were in your position, I would be grateful I even had a job. “P”enn (yes it’s a name which requires capitalization) and Tell”er” DO have their facts straight. If you don’t agree with what they have researched and proven, then I don’t understand why you even took the time to watch their program. Instead, maybe you should try watching Jerry Springer, it seems to me that it probably leans more towards your lifestyle.
“Free market” does not include:
-sweatshops w/substandard working conditions
-poor pay
-urging most of your employees to go to Govt welfare systems for health,etc
-giving a company that clears billions in profit free land, tax incentives, new roads, etc
-not goving thes handouts to others equally.
Wal-mart is part of the fascist problem-a blending of Govt and business welfare. penn/Teller note the Movie on Walmart, high cost… is “socialist”, yet they are supporting a fascist system, in the end, same result-little businessman gets driven out and Govt and a few wealthy individuals profit. Most people that supprot this are oddly not the profit makers.
Also, as most Wal-Mart goods are made in Communist countries, who is really the socialist? the movie maker or the Wal-Mart enalblers?
You may want to eat/breath Christian Economics, which is neither “left” nor “right”, “capitalist”, no “socialist”, nor “fascist”.
BTW-start with Belloc’s Restoration of Property, John Medaille’s book:
Vocation of Business: Social Justice in the Marketplace
Finally, anything by IHS Press
Best analogy I think i ve ever seen( got it from someone commenting at the consumerist.com)
Walmart is China’s Trojan Horse to America
I disagree with most of the OP’s comments. As a former Libertarian, I find many of his comments incompatible with any internally consistent ethical standard in dealing with other human beings. Libertarianism in itself, is indefensible in both its economic assertions and its macro-conception of history. The history of Capitalism in the United States is one of repeated and cyclical collapses, crashes, and depressions that reflect poorly upon the stability of a Capitalist system.
Most of the provisions for the welfare of employees, which we are assured would exist magically due to the free market, exist only because of policies and tacts which Libertarians and Conservatives in general underhandedly and overt criticize as being opposed to the “true nature” of Capitalism. Ironically, it was the dismantling of laissez-faire by popular movements that brought us to our current state of affairs. Do not conflate the issue, the failure of Capitalism in the United States is an internal failure on the part of the system itself, the system being incompatible with any substantial sharing of the rewards of production with those who take an active role in it.
If Walmart goes out of business, our economy will suffer? I’ve never heard such nonsense!
Walmart closes down small shops that produce better quality products. Plain and simple. If walmart were not around, there would be HUNDREDS of local shops actually specializing in various areas of commerce instead of one store for everything. A store would sell JUST produce! A store would sell JUST clothes. A store would sell JUST electronics. I know its a crazy notion, but it just might work.
The supply tries to meet the demand. If Walmart wasnt around, people would still buy things. They’d pay more, but paying more only helps move the economy along. If I pay more for a chair from a local shop, the owner will have more money. With more money he’ll either reinvest in hiring a new person, creating jobs, or he’ll spend money on a new TV from the local electronics store. The guy at the local electronics store will spend money at the local florist. Guess what! The florist is me! The guy who bought the chair that started it all.
The economy is not about one guy spending more, its about everyone spending more. With everyone spending less, but everyone spending it in one store, that only elevates that store. Yes, it gives people jobs, but terrible, terrible jobs. That single mother you mentioned working at walmart (who would be unemployed) makes 5.15. Imagine if she worked at a bakery that employed 3 people? Guaranteed she’d make more.
Mike,
The post you are referring to is not mine. Mine is right above it. In this site, your name is listed UNDER your post, like a signature. We’re on the same side of this issue.
By the way, it’s “misspelled”, not “mispelled”.
Geez.
Jace,
Wal-Mart is successful because it innovates. It’s created one of the most efficient and effective distribution systems in the world. They also hold their suppliers to rigorous standards. If you can’t produce a good product, reliably and repeatedly, you can’t supply for Wal-Mark. Their standards will not allow it.
I like them because I can afford them, they have improved my town, created jobs for my neighbors (though not for me, Mike) and they allow me to shop in one place for most of the things I need.
Brilliant.
You cant tell a persons intellect by their spelling . Some of the best problem solvers look and sound ignorent . The mark of intellect is recognition and solving of problems . If you dont recognize wallmart as a problem , you dont need to be critisized , you need to be persueded to stop focusing all of youre attention and intention on instant gratification . “Instant Personal Gratification” . This has been the message pushed On us for 20 yaers or better . If i can get 3 widgets for a buck instead of 2 , I dont care about the consequences way down the line. you shouldnt be ashamed of thinking this way beacause most of america has been slowly persueded into the same selfish attitude . If our grandparents and their parents were faced with the same issue you can bet they wouldnt spend a lot of time arguing and berating each other like we do . They would do something about it . We have become talkers instead of doers . There is something unsettling about an armchair commando giving a beatdown to peaple commenting on their personnel expiriences . Our country has been slowly replacing high paying jobs with higher credit limits for years . Well the thin ice finally broke , and this is only the tip of the ice berg . wallmart might be prividing a low paying job for the moment , but they are helping to destroy our future . No matter what perspective you look at this from , common sense will reveal that bringing in products from other countrys , and sending a large portion of the money spent for said products back to those countrys , is bad for our future . It will take some personal sacrifice to stop justifing our ways as a consumer . Things are going to get worse before they get better . You might be unwilling to accept the truth now , but that might change in the near future when the worsening economy really hits you hard . Its time to start caring about what happens to each other . a united working class america could be the most powerfull force in the world . Working class america unite.
There are many excellent posts on this page. Some of them seemed informed, and to be sure, many of them seemed to be just a little emotional. It would be cynical of me to suggest that there was any influence from union organizers, or corporate P.R. types.
Let me outline my experience with the issue. I was employed, as a temp agency fill-in for one of Wal-mart’s major Canadian competitors, Canadian Tire Corporation(CTC). CTC’s main overlap with Wal-mart product sales is automotive, home/garden/cottage supplies, sporting goods, and seasonal supplies. Clothing and personal hygiene products are not an important part of the “Tire’s” focus, but if you are on the way north to the family cottage, they could be found at their stores.
Much like Wal-Mart, C.T.C. desires to have its labour force be union-free. This is where these two merchandising giants have differing strategies. Canadian Tire offers their workers generous compensation for their employees. The starting rate for warehouse employees is an astonishing $17.85 per hour. Within a period of two years, the mandated increases top out at about $23.00 per hour. Purchases of their common shares are encouraged by the corporation and subsidized at an agreeable rate. This practice is a part of their corporate goal of taking care of the workers after retirement.
As I stated earlier, I was only a temp employee, due to the seasonal nature of the business, and therefore not a lucky recipient of their largesse.
But, at the same time that I was working for this corporation, I was sharing a house with someone that had been working for almost 10 years, ever since Wal-mart came to this country. and her pay-cheque (sorry, Canadian spell) for a forty-four hour week was less than my TEMP AGENCY cheque for 38.75 hours.
One more addition. When Wal-mart came into my country, they bought a viable chain of stores and distribution centres (Canadian spelling again). The Woolco stores were generally successful, but employed union personnel. The Wal-mart people offered the employees, with no guarantee of long-term employment, a chance of continuing their duties, but at a decrease of pay, or taking a buy-out package. Of the many people that I know that worked there, the only one that chose to remain on was fired from the company only days after his protection period expired and was replaced by an agency kid that he trained.
For my part, I do not care how little that I can buy a box of detergent from Wal-mart, I will never set foot in one of their stores, at least to buy one of their products.
I was sharing a house with someone that had been working for almost for Wal-mart for 10 year
I am sorry that this part was missing!
Guys! Get a grip. I work at Wal-Mart, the minimum wage in my state is $6.50 and I get paid $7.50 and $8.50 on weekends, and that is starting wages. Out of all 5 jobs I’ve had, Wal-Mart pays the most and people have been best. Most of all, it’s the only job that isn’t cutting hours down to a stump and laying people off. I repeat this is coming from someone who works at Wal-Mart. I’ve worked at Old Country Buffet, Goodwill, Target, Sears and a local thrift store (which sucked ass, and that was a mom and pop store.)
The Wal-Mart that opened in my city is still there along with hundreds of businesses. That’s because people who shop there save money on groceries and basic things so they can go to higher quality stores and spend money there. Obviously none of you watched the episode.
I’m like the woman in that episode, I’d still be looking for a job if it weren’t for Wal-Mart, in a recession Wal-Mart is the only company that’s actually making money.
And for the sweatshops thing. Pretty much every store gets sweatshop products from China and India. First off, by getting products from other countries companies are giving money to countries that can give people jobs and better wages. Also, like the guy in the episode said, China’s living conditions are much lower and sweatshops there is like working for Google in America. They pay significantly more than any other job there. And all these union people griping that Wal-Mart needs to unionize, why not go to China, India or Pakistan and help them unionize?
Jesus people, watch the fucking episode, unless you have a problem with being proven wrong. *rolls eyes*
Oh and one more thing I forgot to add. If you don’t like Wal-Mart so much then don’t shop there. If enough people do then they’ll go away and you all will be happy as clams. That’s the beauty of capitalism, you get to decide.
And all you socialists, the government decides what businesses you work for, shop at and give money to. If employees treat you like shit, you can’t do a damn thing about it. They can jack up prices and break your wallet, but you still have to shop there because you have no other choices. In a capitalist economy, you choose.
LOL Nickie….wow you are a fuckin genius. Hey minimum wage is 5.15 cents in my city. Do you know how much my pay is with no college and no experience at my UNION JOB? 20.15 per hour. Wow shithole town if 7.50 is higher paying huh? OH BTW federal minimum is going up to 7.25 within a year….see how much of a raise wal-mart gives ya. When i worked at Wal-Mart i thought it was sweet….but then you find the numbers….My store out of the 11 in the city….made 130,000,000 out of that PROFIT was 101,000,000. My wage…8.00 per hour. My bonus for “profit sharing” they hand out…0.00. Yeah they didnt have enough to share since we had to remodel the store, that comes out of OUR pockets. Add it up 130 million and 101 after paying 500 employees and buying the product. Avg worker at Wal-mart 10.15 x 40hrs = 406 x 52 wks = 21,112 x the 480 employees at my store = 10 million roughly.130 mil -10 mil and no money for a bonus? Get a clue dipshit u work 10x harder than i do and i make 3 times the money you do. AINT WAL-MART GREAT!!!!!!
oh and BTW saturday pay is 30.23 per hour and sunday is 40.30 per hour. Thats how a REAL company repays u for working on YOUR weekend.
Durka Durrrr!!!
Yeah im not seeing the reasoning for the hate. i agree with the kid if you dont want to support Wal mart dont shop there simple solution. I also want to bring up another little fact here. Wal Mart is a publically traded company that means that everyone in here has the option to purchase stock in it which has a great track record btw. Which means its not just your corporate elite of the great wizards of wal mart who can profit anyone who wishes to purchase the companys stocks can profit
Brett,
Is your union job in retail? That’s a relevant fact that you’ve excluded. Any retailer that pays its employees $20/hr would be destined for bankruptcy.
Seriously OP? Any article I read where the author admits to having read that shit house of a book called “Atlas Shrugged” and acts like it was a positive thing is an article that I ignore outright.
I love the comment section though. Fantastic stuff. I’ve watched a few Penn and Teller Bullshit episodes and for the most part they’re entertaining but this one just rubs me the wrong way. They almost seem to intentionally gloss over relevant facts and I find that troubling. They cite the amount a full time worker in management gets yet fail to mention that the majority of workers at Wal-Mart are not full time, not managers and rarely make anywhere near 10 dollars an hour. They try and justify the use of sweat shops by saying the alternatives in those countries are worse so that somehow by default makes the sweat shop better. Yet that reasoning can be applied to other lines of work though. So why are people outraged by child prostitution in foreign countries after all if the kid makes more than they would in the sweat shop shouldn’t we be thanking the sexual predators for saving them from poverty? Free market rocks guys now get out there and rape some kids.
As for the argument that if you don’t like Wal-Mart you should shop somewhere else where exactly would you like people to go? After all by coming into a small community Wal-Mart drives other companies out of business so where do I shop when they are the only one left?
Libertarianism is not an excuse to stick your heads up your asses and act like bad things are acceptable as long as they are done in a free market with no interference. Enjoy the coming depression you’ve all earned it. By allowing outsourcing of jobs and the weakening of the American industrial infrastructure this country is about to get its ass handed to it on a silver plate. Sadly that silver plate was purchased from a Wal-Mart and made by kids in China.
Slow clap.
Walmart is an efficient machine for converting US capital into Chinese wealth, making the Walton family rich in the process.
Free market capitalism assumes the market is really free. With the Chinese yuan artificially held low by the Bank of China, it is simple for Walmart to pump wealth into China. If the market were really free the yuan would rise and the pump would reverse direction. But that isn’t happening, is it? Why?
Because we all think we’re getting something free. Impossibly cheap goods for the US market, huge profits for shareholders and a Chinese government that can afford to subsidize US national debt. Win-win…. until the pump reaches the bottom and we discover all our wealth has been transferred from the bank accounts of working Americans to Chinese ownership of US bonds.
Walmart is the engine of our future loss of economic power and independence and ultimately to our enslavement to the rich Chinese government that loves capitalism as long as they don’t have to play by the rules.
Congrats on building another engine in your town.
Your overly-simplistic view of social structure is contemptible. Saying that poor people “loot” from “productive” members of society is ridiculous. Do yourself a favor and try taking a class or two on the way that the social structure itself often works to keep poor people poor. You have such a lack of analytical prowess that it almost seems deliberate.
I would just LOVE to hear one of these Walmart opponents actually run some numbers on what would happen to local economies if Walmart went under. How exactly would losing hundreds of jobs & having every citizen waste thousands of dollars every year on overpriced goods work out to their financial benefit?
Penn & Teller granted in the episode that Walmart is perfectly capable of doing wrong, and in the past several stores have done some pretty shitty things to their workers. Honestly, though, one of their guests summed it up perfectly – Walmart has done nothing but give the American consumer what they’ve asked for. Through our spending habits, we’ve proven that we value convenience, efficiency, low price and Walmart quality (define that however you like) over the privilege of paying more for high-paid, knowledgeable store employees & the fun of having to travel to a multitude of various mom & pop specialty shops.
Walmart is what America asked for, and we got it. Now quit your bitching & go enjoy some everyday low prices.
@Brett
Actually, you’ve described exactly why unions are obsolete these days. Oh, it’s nice when they come to rescue of some poor employees who are on the receiving end of unfair management, but for the most part they do exactly what you said: they make sure unskilled, uneducated laborers get paid top dollar to do monkey work.
I used to have a union job too, and I didn’t complain that I was getting paid WAY more than the work I did was worth, either. Still, as a responsible adult I would never claim that I actually deserved those kinds of wages; I only got them because my union strong-armed my employer until they went bankrupt & had to move their operation to Mexico.
There were at least two things misleading in this episode and once I saw them I couldn’t go on. It made me so mad that P and T weren’t forthcoming or didn’t give this story due diligence.
1. Saying that because their average wage FOR FULL TIME WORKERS is 10.51 an hour and minimum wage is 5.15 they claim that they aren’t guilty of trying to pay their people the least amount of money that they can.
Give me a break. What is the percentage of FULL TIME WORKERS at WalMart?
This site shows that the median pay for the MANAGERS is less than 12 dollars.
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Wal-Mart_Stores,_Inc/Hourly_Rate
Managers in most companies are salaried and have to work a ton of overtime (that isn’t paid) and normally get a higher salary because of this.
Who the heck could live on that unless they live in a low cost of living area?
How many of these ‘managers’ are full time?
What about making it so the hours of people 32 or less doesn’t qualify them for healthcare coverage?
They talk about schedules and they ridicule the guy for acting as tho he doesn’t set his employee’s schedule.
Well…if he has a nine to five business she can probably count on picking her kids up from day care at 5:30 but when a parent has hours all over the place they can’t schedule day care for their child.
2. When they introduced LaToya who makes 8.50 an hour and she said she is the sole provider for her family and she lives in Chicago.
Penn and Teller said that she gets ‘benefits’. Did they say what the benefits were? No…did they talk about what her healthcare co-pay might be? What her yearly deductible might be?
No…Is she full time, part time? What happens when she is sick?
Penn and Teller have proven that you can’t trust them to give you the whole story.
Too bad. I used to have a lot of respect for them.
I think they are just proving how out of touch they are with regular people like me.
@Sven Knapp
dude nobody forces people to work at walmart. your ignorance and bigotry is pretty apparent.
[url=http://mergan.if.ua][/url]
Quote >> “If walmart were not around, there would be HUNDREDS of local shops actually specializing in various areas of commerce instead of one store for everything.”
Jace –
I think you meant to say, if Walmart, Target, Kmart, Sears, Macy’s, Nordstroms, J.C. Penney’s, Albertsons, Safeway, Fred Meyer, Publix, QFC, SafeCo, Sam’s Club and dozens of other “big box” companies were not around…
Oh, and also most of the specialized “big box” stores as well, Office Depot, Staples, Office Max, PetCo, Bed Bath and Beyond, G.I. Joes, Sports Authority, Big 5 Sports, Borders, Books A Million, Barnes and Noble, Burlington Coat Factory, Crate and Barrel, Ikea, and hundreds of others.
And you might need to close down giant restaurant chains that make it unfair for independent restaurants. So Burger King, McDonalds, Wendys, Jack in the Box, Taco Bell, Olive Garden, Applebees, TGIFridays, Starbucks, Tully’s, Domino’s, Pizza Hut, Little Ceasars, and hundreds of others.
But then, yes. I’m sure no other companies would try to grow larger than one or two locations. And no company would ever try to sell more than one or two lines of items.
I agree 100%.
Honestly, for those of you who enjoy making $7.50 per hour to peddle products made by our chinese brothers and sisters who are more or less between a rock and a brick economically and socially, that’s totally your perogative. In my opinion it shows a complete lack of compassion for your fellow being if you think you are helping someone out by keeping them employed by supporting the very companies who abuse the shit out of them! Sweatshop workers across the globe are often forced to work in dormitory style factories with no allowed access to restrooms or food for up to 18 hours at a time, many commit suicide as it is sometimes thought of as relief from such a hellish life. Why do these poor folks decide to take up a sweatshop gig? Usually because it is the ONLY job available. NO NOT DECENT PAYING, NOT EVEN WORKABLE CONDITIONS OR TREATMENT. ITS JUST THE ONLY JOB THAT ISN’T SELLING ASS! TAKE IT OR STARVE! Call me a utopian hippie but that just dosen’t seem right to me. It is essentially slavery.
What boggles my mind is the need for instant gratification and lack of patience many americans seem to have. Beyond that, the gluttony and disdain for human life is also quite appaling. If not supporting these tyrannical administrations and ridiculous economic systems means not buying an iphone or an xbox360 why is the power of individuals and communities continuously unrealized? What is the necessity of 90% of the bullshit purchased at Walmart? Personally I like to spend my money on food, necessary clothing, and maybe some music or fun events. Why does your daughter need 100 barbie dolls? If your son dosent even play with all the toys he has why do you buy him a chestful of new ones twice a year? How many fucking TVs do you need in 1 house? These days we have some of the dumbest kids in the world, why not spend some of those dollars at the local bookstore? Why not pluck the little bastards from in front of the TV and take them to the library for a change? Honestly people have forgotten how to live simply and within their means. What ever happened to getting the most use out of something before buying a brand new one? What ever happened to the willingness to spend a few more dollars for top quality. When Target opened up in Brooklyn, I’ll admit I went in and bought some stuff but between the 3 swiffer wet-jets and 2 dustbusters that I went through in less than a year I got fed up with them and went to my local 99 cent store and bought a real friggin mop and went to the local hardware store and had them order me a good vaccum (lower cost and better quality than the crap at home depot btw)…still going strong after like 3-4 years.
Big Box is bullshit. If they offered REAL benefits and incentives for their employees people probably wouldn’t feel this way but the fact of the matter is that these big box companies usually serve only to make a handful of people filthy rich while thousands of people bust their ass day in and day out with no sort of real job security or incentive. I know we can do better. The problem is that people are too complacent settling for less than. People accept less than $10 per hour because they’ve been conditioned to believe they aren’t worth more. EVERYONE is good at something and maybe if we all looked within and at what we could all offer the world you would find everything you could ever need right in your own neighborhood and everyone would be able to live WELL. All it takes is communication with your neighbors. If you are too lazy to take out a few hours a week to shop around for the things you need locally then maybe you deserve what walmart has to offer but don’t complain when you end up working there because where you work got put out of business!
And for the record YES I DO THINK ALL BIG BOX IS BULLSHIT, that includes your precious fast food chains who in all honesty should not even be classified as restaurants. The items they serve offer no nourishment and are more often than not harmful to your health. They are more like overpriced troughs that do nothing but add to obesity and the dire need for instant gratification.
Wake Up Folks!