Comments on: Review of Penn and Teller: Bullshit! Wal-Mart http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/ personal homepage of Jason Vallery Thu, 17 May 2012 20:22:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: K.W. Edwards http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/comment-page-1/#comment-1179 K.W. Edwards Mon, 25 Apr 2011 00:38:56 +0000 http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/#comment-1179 Honestly, for those of you who enjoy making $7.50 per hour to peddle products made by our chinese brothers and sisters who are more or less between a rock and a brick economically and socially, that's totally your perogative. In my opinion it shows a complete lack of compassion for your fellow being if you think you are helping someone out by keeping them employed by supporting the very companies who abuse the shit out of them! Sweatshop workers across the globe are often forced to work in dormitory style factories with no allowed access to restrooms or food for up to 18 hours at a time, many commit suicide as it is sometimes thought of as relief from such a hellish life. Why do these poor folks decide to take up a sweatshop gig? Usually because it is the ONLY job available. NO NOT DECENT PAYING, NOT EVEN WORKABLE CONDITIONS OR TREATMENT. ITS JUST THE ONLY JOB THAT ISN'T SELLING ASS! TAKE IT OR STARVE! Call me a utopian hippie but that just dosen't seem right to me. It is essentially slavery. What boggles my mind is the need for instant gratification and lack of patience many americans seem to have. Beyond that, the gluttony and disdain for human life is also quite appaling. If not supporting these tyrannical administrations and ridiculous economic systems means not buying an iphone or an xbox360 why is the power of individuals and communities continuously unrealized? What is the necessity of 90% of the bullshit purchased at Walmart? Personally I like to spend my money on food, necessary clothing, and maybe some music or fun events. Why does your daughter need 100 barbie dolls? If your son dosent even play with all the toys he has why do you buy him a chestful of new ones twice a year? How many fucking TVs do you need in 1 house? These days we have some of the dumbest kids in the world, why not spend some of those dollars at the local bookstore? Why not pluck the little bastards from in front of the TV and take them to the library for a change? Honestly people have forgotten how to live simply and within their means. What ever happened to getting the most use out of something before buying a brand new one? What ever happened to the willingness to spend a few more dollars for top quality. When Target opened up in Brooklyn, I'll admit I went in and bought some stuff but between the 3 swiffer wet-jets and 2 dustbusters that I went through in less than a year I got fed up with them and went to my local 99 cent store and bought a real friggin mop and went to the local hardware store and had them order me a good vaccum (lower cost and better quality than the crap at home depot btw)...still going strong after like 3-4 years. Big Box is bullshit. If they offered REAL benefits and incentives for their employees people probably wouldn't feel this way but the fact of the matter is that these big box companies usually serve only to make a handful of people filthy rich while thousands of people bust their ass day in and day out with no sort of real job security or incentive. I know we can do better. The problem is that people are too complacent settling for less than. People accept less than $10 per hour because they've been conditioned to believe they aren't worth more. EVERYONE is good at something and maybe if we all looked within and at what we could all offer the world you would find everything you could ever need right in your own neighborhood and everyone would be able to live WELL. All it takes is communication with your neighbors. If you are too lazy to take out a few hours a week to shop around for the things you need locally then maybe you deserve what walmart has to offer but don't complain when you end up working there because where you work got put out of business! And for the record YES I DO THINK ALL BIG BOX IS BULLSHIT, that includes your precious fast food chains who in all honesty should not even be classified as restaurants. The items they serve offer no nourishment and are more often than not harmful to your health. They are more like overpriced troughs that do nothing but add to obesity and the dire need for instant gratification. Wake Up Folks! Honestly, for those of you who enjoy making $7.50 per hour to peddle products made by our chinese brothers and sisters who are more or less between a rock and a brick economically and socially, that’s totally your perogative. In my opinion it shows a complete lack of compassion for your fellow being if you think you are helping someone out by keeping them employed by supporting the very companies who abuse the shit out of them! Sweatshop workers across the globe are often forced to work in dormitory style factories with no allowed access to restrooms or food for up to 18 hours at a time, many commit suicide as it is sometimes thought of as relief from such a hellish life. Why do these poor folks decide to take up a sweatshop gig? Usually because it is the ONLY job available. NO NOT DECENT PAYING, NOT EVEN WORKABLE CONDITIONS OR TREATMENT. ITS JUST THE ONLY JOB THAT ISN’T SELLING ASS! TAKE IT OR STARVE! Call me a utopian hippie but that just dosen’t seem right to me. It is essentially slavery.
What boggles my mind is the need for instant gratification and lack of patience many americans seem to have. Beyond that, the gluttony and disdain for human life is also quite appaling. If not supporting these tyrannical administrations and ridiculous economic systems means not buying an iphone or an xbox360 why is the power of individuals and communities continuously unrealized? What is the necessity of 90% of the bullshit purchased at Walmart? Personally I like to spend my money on food, necessary clothing, and maybe some music or fun events. Why does your daughter need 100 barbie dolls? If your son dosent even play with all the toys he has why do you buy him a chestful of new ones twice a year? How many fucking TVs do you need in 1 house? These days we have some of the dumbest kids in the world, why not spend some of those dollars at the local bookstore? Why not pluck the little bastards from in front of the TV and take them to the library for a change? Honestly people have forgotten how to live simply and within their means. What ever happened to getting the most use out of something before buying a brand new one? What ever happened to the willingness to spend a few more dollars for top quality. When Target opened up in Brooklyn, I’ll admit I went in and bought some stuff but between the 3 swiffer wet-jets and 2 dustbusters that I went through in less than a year I got fed up with them and went to my local 99 cent store and bought a real friggin mop and went to the local hardware store and had them order me a good vaccum (lower cost and better quality than the crap at home depot btw)…still going strong after like 3-4 years.
Big Box is bullshit. If they offered REAL benefits and incentives for their employees people probably wouldn’t feel this way but the fact of the matter is that these big box companies usually serve only to make a handful of people filthy rich while thousands of people bust their ass day in and day out with no sort of real job security or incentive. I know we can do better. The problem is that people are too complacent settling for less than. People accept less than $10 per hour because they’ve been conditioned to believe they aren’t worth more. EVERYONE is good at something and maybe if we all looked within and at what we could all offer the world you would find everything you could ever need right in your own neighborhood and everyone would be able to live WELL. All it takes is communication with your neighbors. If you are too lazy to take out a few hours a week to shop around for the things you need locally then maybe you deserve what walmart has to offer but don’t complain when you end up working there because where you work got put out of business!
And for the record YES I DO THINK ALL BIG BOX IS BULLSHIT, that includes your precious fast food chains who in all honesty should not even be classified as restaurants. The items they serve offer no nourishment and are more often than not harmful to your health. They are more like overpriced troughs that do nothing but add to obesity and the dire need for instant gratification.
Wake Up Folks!

]]> By: Rick C. http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/comment-page-1/#comment-1168 Rick C. Mon, 11 Apr 2011 15:56:24 +0000 http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/#comment-1168 Quote >> "If walmart were not around, there would be HUNDREDS of local shops actually specializing in various areas of commerce instead of one store for everything." Jace - I think you meant to say, if Walmart, Target, Kmart, Sears, Macy's, Nordstroms, J.C. Penney's, Albertsons, Safeway, Fred Meyer, Publix, QFC, SafeCo, Sam's Club and dozens of other "big box" companies were not around... Oh, and also most of the specialized "big box" stores as well, Office Depot, Staples, Office Max, PetCo, Bed Bath and Beyond, G.I. Joes, Sports Authority, Big 5 Sports, Borders, Books A Million, Barnes and Noble, Burlington Coat Factory, Crate and Barrel, Ikea, and hundreds of others. And you might need to close down giant restaurant chains that make it unfair for independent restaurants. So Burger King, McDonalds, Wendys, Jack in the Box, Taco Bell, Olive Garden, Applebees, TGIFridays, Starbucks, Tully's, Domino's, Pizza Hut, Little Ceasars, and hundreds of others. But then, yes. I'm sure no other companies would try to grow larger than one or two locations. And no company would ever try to sell more than one or two lines of items. I agree 100%. Quote >> “If walmart were not around, there would be HUNDREDS of local shops actually specializing in various areas of commerce instead of one store for everything.”

Jace –

I think you meant to say, if Walmart, Target, Kmart, Sears, Macy’s, Nordstroms, J.C. Penney’s, Albertsons, Safeway, Fred Meyer, Publix, QFC, SafeCo, Sam’s Club and dozens of other “big box” companies were not around…
Oh, and also most of the specialized “big box” stores as well, Office Depot, Staples, Office Max, PetCo, Bed Bath and Beyond, G.I. Joes, Sports Authority, Big 5 Sports, Borders, Books A Million, Barnes and Noble, Burlington Coat Factory, Crate and Barrel, Ikea, and hundreds of others.
And you might need to close down giant restaurant chains that make it unfair for independent restaurants. So Burger King, McDonalds, Wendys, Jack in the Box, Taco Bell, Olive Garden, Applebees, TGIFridays, Starbucks, Tully’s, Domino’s, Pizza Hut, Little Ceasars, and hundreds of others.

But then, yes. I’m sure no other companies would try to grow larger than one or two locations. And no company would ever try to sell more than one or two lines of items.

I agree 100%.

]]> By: SaleCoore http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/comment-page-1/#comment-1142 SaleCoore Thu, 24 Feb 2011 03:53:37 +0000 http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/#comment-1142 [url=http://mergan.if.ua][/url] [url=http://mergan.if.ua][/url]

]]> By: john macky http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/comment-page-1/#comment-1023 john macky Sat, 02 Oct 2010 02:12:42 +0000 http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/#comment-1023 <a href="#comment-107" rel="nofollow">@Sven Knapp </a> dude nobody forces people to work at walmart. your ignorance and bigotry is pretty apparent. @Sven Knapp

dude nobody forces people to work at walmart. your ignorance and bigotry is pretty apparent.

]]> By: melody http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/comment-page-1/#comment-1015 melody Mon, 13 Sep 2010 04:10:56 +0000 http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/#comment-1015 There were at least two things misleading in this episode and once I saw them I couldn't go on. It made me so mad that P and T weren't forthcoming or didn't give this story due diligence. 1. Saying that because their average wage FOR FULL TIME WORKERS is 10.51 an hour and minimum wage is 5.15 they claim that they aren't guilty of trying to pay their people the least amount of money that they can. Give me a break. What is the percentage of FULL TIME WORKERS at WalMart? This site shows that the median pay for the MANAGERS is less than 12 dollars. http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Wal-Mart_Stores,_Inc/Hourly_Rate Managers in most companies are salaried and have to work a ton of overtime (that isn't paid) and normally get a higher salary because of this. Who the heck could live on that unless they live in a low cost of living area? How many of these 'managers' are full time? What about making it so the hours of people 32 or less doesn't qualify them for healthcare coverage? They talk about schedules and they ridicule the guy for acting as tho he doesn't set his employee's schedule. Well...if he has a nine to five business she can probably count on picking her kids up from day care at 5:30 but when a parent has hours all over the place they can't schedule day care for their child. 2. When they introduced LaToya who makes 8.50 an hour and she said she is the sole provider for her family and she lives in Chicago. Penn and Teller said that she gets 'benefits'. Did they say what the benefits were? No...did they talk about what her healthcare co-pay might be? What her yearly deductible might be? No...Is she full time, part time? What happens when she is sick? Penn and Teller have proven that you can't trust them to give you the whole story. Too bad. I used to have a lot of respect for them. I think they are just proving how out of touch they are with regular people like me. :-( There were at least two things misleading in this episode and once I saw them I couldn’t go on. It made me so mad that P and T weren’t forthcoming or didn’t give this story due diligence.
1. Saying that because their average wage FOR FULL TIME WORKERS is 10.51 an hour and minimum wage is 5.15 they claim that they aren’t guilty of trying to pay their people the least amount of money that they can.
Give me a break. What is the percentage of FULL TIME WORKERS at WalMart?
This site shows that the median pay for the MANAGERS is less than 12 dollars.
http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=Wal-Mart_Stores,_Inc/Hourly_Rate
Managers in most companies are salaried and have to work a ton of overtime (that isn’t paid) and normally get a higher salary because of this.
Who the heck could live on that unless they live in a low cost of living area?
How many of these ‘managers’ are full time?
What about making it so the hours of people 32 or less doesn’t qualify them for healthcare coverage?
They talk about schedules and they ridicule the guy for acting as tho he doesn’t set his employee’s schedule.
Well…if he has a nine to five business she can probably count on picking her kids up from day care at 5:30 but when a parent has hours all over the place they can’t schedule day care for their child.

2. When they introduced LaToya who makes 8.50 an hour and she said she is the sole provider for her family and she lives in Chicago.
Penn and Teller said that she gets ‘benefits’. Did they say what the benefits were? No…did they talk about what her healthcare co-pay might be? What her yearly deductible might be?
No…Is she full time, part time? What happens when she is sick?
Penn and Teller have proven that you can’t trust them to give you the whole story.
Too bad. I used to have a lot of respect for them.
I think they are just proving how out of touch they are with regular people like me.
:-(

]]> By: Jason http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/comment-page-1/#comment-1004 Jason Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:07:43 +0000 http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/#comment-1004 <a href="#comment-132" rel="nofollow">@Brett </a> Actually, you've described exactly why unions are obsolete these days. Oh, it's nice when they come to rescue of some poor employees who are on the receiving end of unfair management, but for the most part they do exactly what you said: they make sure unskilled, uneducated laborers get paid top dollar to do monkey work. I used to have a union job too, and I didn't complain that I was getting paid WAY more than the work I did was worth, either. Still, as a responsible adult I would never claim that I actually deserved those kinds of wages; I only got them because my union strong-armed my employer until they went bankrupt & had to move their operation to Mexico. @Brett
Actually, you’ve described exactly why unions are obsolete these days. Oh, it’s nice when they come to rescue of some poor employees who are on the receiving end of unfair management, but for the most part they do exactly what you said: they make sure unskilled, uneducated laborers get paid top dollar to do monkey work.

I used to have a union job too, and I didn’t complain that I was getting paid WAY more than the work I did was worth, either. Still, as a responsible adult I would never claim that I actually deserved those kinds of wages; I only got them because my union strong-armed my employer until they went bankrupt & had to move their operation to Mexico.

]]> By: Jason http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/comment-page-1/#comment-1003 Jason Tue, 13 Jul 2010 20:01:51 +0000 http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/#comment-1003 I would just LOVE to hear one of these Walmart opponents actually run some numbers on what would happen to local economies if Walmart went under. How exactly would losing hundreds of jobs & having every citizen waste thousands of dollars every year on overpriced goods work out to their financial benefit? Penn & Teller granted in the episode that Walmart is perfectly capable of doing wrong, and in the past several stores have done some pretty shitty things to their workers. Honestly, though, one of their guests summed it up perfectly - Walmart has done nothing but give the American consumer what they've asked for. Through our spending habits, we've proven that we value convenience, efficiency, low price and Walmart quality (define that however you like) over the privilege of paying more for high-paid, knowledgeable store employees & the fun of having to travel to a multitude of various mom & pop specialty shops. Walmart is what America asked for, and we got it. Now quit your bitching & go enjoy some everyday low prices. I would just LOVE to hear one of these Walmart opponents actually run some numbers on what would happen to local economies if Walmart went under. How exactly would losing hundreds of jobs & having every citizen waste thousands of dollars every year on overpriced goods work out to their financial benefit?

Penn & Teller granted in the episode that Walmart is perfectly capable of doing wrong, and in the past several stores have done some pretty shitty things to their workers. Honestly, though, one of their guests summed it up perfectly – Walmart has done nothing but give the American consumer what they’ve asked for. Through our spending habits, we’ve proven that we value convenience, efficiency, low price and Walmart quality (define that however you like) over the privilege of paying more for high-paid, knowledgeable store employees & the fun of having to travel to a multitude of various mom & pop specialty shops.

Walmart is what America asked for, and we got it. Now quit your bitching & go enjoy some everyday low prices.

]]> By: Carol http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/comment-page-1/#comment-1001 Carol Mon, 05 Jul 2010 03:08:16 +0000 http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/#comment-1001 Your overly-simplistic view of social structure is contemptible. Saying that poor people "loot" from "productive" members of society is ridiculous. Do yourself a favor and try taking a class or two on the way that the social structure itself often works to keep poor people poor. You have such a lack of analytical prowess that it almost seems deliberate. Your overly-simplistic view of social structure is contemptible. Saying that poor people “loot” from “productive” members of society is ridiculous. Do yourself a favor and try taking a class or two on the way that the social structure itself often works to keep poor people poor. You have such a lack of analytical prowess that it almost seems deliberate.

]]> By: ed hazer http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/comment-page-1/#comment-997 ed hazer Sun, 06 Jun 2010 16:45:42 +0000 http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/#comment-997 Walmart is an efficient machine for converting US capital into Chinese wealth, making the Walton family rich in the process. Free market capitalism assumes the market is really free. With the Chinese yuan artificially held low by the Bank of China, it is simple for Walmart to pump wealth into China. If the market were really free the yuan would rise and the pump would reverse direction. But that isn't happening, is it? Why? Because we all think we're getting something free. Impossibly cheap goods for the US market, huge profits for shareholders and a Chinese government that can afford to subsidize US national debt. Win-win.... until the pump reaches the bottom and we discover all our wealth has been transferred from the bank accounts of working Americans to Chinese ownership of US bonds. Walmart is the engine of our future loss of economic power and independence and ultimately to our enslavement to the rich Chinese government that loves capitalism as long as they don't have to play by the rules. Congrats on building another engine in your town. Walmart is an efficient machine for converting US capital into Chinese wealth, making the Walton family rich in the process.

Free market capitalism assumes the market is really free. With the Chinese yuan artificially held low by the Bank of China, it is simple for Walmart to pump wealth into China. If the market were really free the yuan would rise and the pump would reverse direction. But that isn’t happening, is it? Why?

Because we all think we’re getting something free. Impossibly cheap goods for the US market, huge profits for shareholders and a Chinese government that can afford to subsidize US national debt. Win-win…. until the pump reaches the bottom and we discover all our wealth has been transferred from the bank accounts of working Americans to Chinese ownership of US bonds.

Walmart is the engine of our future loss of economic power and independence and ultimately to our enslavement to the rich Chinese government that loves capitalism as long as they don’t have to play by the rules.

Congrats on building another engine in your town.

]]> By: Ayn Rand http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/comment-page-1/#comment-990 Ayn Rand Sun, 09 May 2010 18:31:26 +0000 http://vallery.net/2007/04/05/penn-and-teller-bullshit-wal-mart/#comment-990 Seriously OP? Any article I read where the author admits to having read that shit house of a book called "Atlas Shrugged" and acts like it was a positive thing is an article that I ignore outright. I love the comment section though. Fantastic stuff. I've watched a few Penn and Teller Bullshit episodes and for the most part they're entertaining but this one just rubs me the wrong way. They almost seem to intentionally gloss over relevant facts and I find that troubling. They cite the amount a full time worker in management gets yet fail to mention that the majority of workers at Wal-Mart are not full time, not managers and rarely make anywhere near 10 dollars an hour. They try and justify the use of sweat shops by saying the alternatives in those countries are worse so that somehow by default makes the sweat shop better. Yet that reasoning can be applied to other lines of work though. So why are people outraged by child prostitution in foreign countries after all if the kid makes more than they would in the sweat shop shouldn't we be thanking the sexual predators for saving them from poverty? Free market rocks guys now get out there and rape some kids. As for the argument that if you don't like Wal-Mart you should shop somewhere else where exactly would you like people to go? After all by coming into a small community Wal-Mart drives other companies out of business so where do I shop when they are the only one left? Libertarianism is not an excuse to stick your heads up your asses and act like bad things are acceptable as long as they are done in a free market with no interference. Enjoy the coming depression you've all earned it. By allowing outsourcing of jobs and the weakening of the American industrial infrastructure this country is about to get its ass handed to it on a silver plate. Sadly that silver plate was purchased from a Wal-Mart and made by kids in China. Slow clap. Seriously OP? Any article I read where the author admits to having read that shit house of a book called “Atlas Shrugged” and acts like it was a positive thing is an article that I ignore outright.

I love the comment section though. Fantastic stuff. I’ve watched a few Penn and Teller Bullshit episodes and for the most part they’re entertaining but this one just rubs me the wrong way. They almost seem to intentionally gloss over relevant facts and I find that troubling. They cite the amount a full time worker in management gets yet fail to mention that the majority of workers at Wal-Mart are not full time, not managers and rarely make anywhere near 10 dollars an hour. They try and justify the use of sweat shops by saying the alternatives in those countries are worse so that somehow by default makes the sweat shop better. Yet that reasoning can be applied to other lines of work though. So why are people outraged by child prostitution in foreign countries after all if the kid makes more than they would in the sweat shop shouldn’t we be thanking the sexual predators for saving them from poverty? Free market rocks guys now get out there and rape some kids.

As for the argument that if you don’t like Wal-Mart you should shop somewhere else where exactly would you like people to go? After all by coming into a small community Wal-Mart drives other companies out of business so where do I shop when they are the only one left?

Libertarianism is not an excuse to stick your heads up your asses and act like bad things are acceptable as long as they are done in a free market with no interference. Enjoy the coming depression you’ve all earned it. By allowing outsourcing of jobs and the weakening of the American industrial infrastructure this country is about to get its ass handed to it on a silver plate. Sadly that silver plate was purchased from a Wal-Mart and made by kids in China.

Slow clap.

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