Penn and Teller did it again, this was a great episode. I’m glad to see them taking on the immigration issue. Most American’s are opposed to immigration, and support stricter border controls. I think changing that opinion will be a hard pill for most American’s to swallow.
Penn and Teller are critical of the government’s plans to install 700 miles of fencing on the border at the cost of $60 billion dollars. They setup a mock version of the wall and show how easy it is to circumvent. Their illegals are able to get past it in around 3 minutes using a variety of different techniques. In addition, they pointed out that majority of illegals actual enter the country on legal visas and overstay their welcome. I think the most fascinating fact that they pointed out is that the contractor, golden sate fence company, who was hired to build the wall was actually fined for using illegal workers!
The one thing that they didn’t get into that disappointed me a little bit is the philosophical side of immigration. Immigrants are the core work force of this country. America was built on a tradition of immigration. By limiting immigration, you’re increasing manual labor costs, which in turn increases prices and lowers the value of the dollar. Immigration laws are another great example of “unintended consequences”. On the face it sounds like a good idea, limit the number of people entering the country, thereby ensuring jobs for the people already here, lowering the demand on social services, and controlling population growth. The problem however is that if you try and control the immigration you are forcing the “illegals” deeper into a black market. Mexicans will always find a way to get here, there is no physical way to stop them. Once here, the harder you make it for them to work, the harder you make it on everyone. You not only put the “illegals” into harms way, but you put Americans into danger as well. If their existence here is criminal, they will avoid authority at all costs. They might be witness to a crime, but they won’t report it. They might be in medical danger, but they won’t go to a hospital. They might resort to identify theft in order to remain here. You’re forcing honest, hard working, principled individuals to become criminals, just so they can provide for their families and better themselves.
A bit closer to home, I have a guy that takes care of my lawn every summer, let’s call him Bob. He is one of the hardest working guys I’ve met. He does a fantastic job, is punctual, and cheap. Of course, he is also probably illegal. Last fall he came to me and said “I’ve got to go back to Mexico, so I can’t take care of your yard next year”. Of course I don’t know the details, but I can only imagine. Why would we do this to someone who wants to work hard and make money. He has capitalistic intentions, he knows that he has to earn what he makes. He embodies the spirit and work ethic that this country was founded on. I’m proud to pay him to do the work, I feel a sense of satisfaction in our transactions. It’s hard to explain, but he lives for the ideas and principals that I believe in with all my heart. Yet someone has the balls to tell him that he can’t work here? That what he is doing is illegal.
Before we turn away men like Bob we need look in our own backyard. Some American’s are nothing more than looters, living off the system, living off our tax money, our social services, and our charity. Perhaps we should worry more about our existing problems in society before we cast stones on the immigrants. Instead of our money being taken at the point of a gun by our government to feed these American looters, maybe we should embrace the work ethic of our neighbors to the south and force the unproductive members of our society to take these men as examples. I say open borders for all, any man that has a work ethic like Bob and can help make this country a better place is welcome here in my book.
Here is the Libertarian party’s official stance on immigration.
The Issue: Our borders are currently neither open, closed, nor secure. This situation restricts the labor pool, encouraging employers to hire undocumented workers, while leaving those workers neither subject to nor protected by the law. A completely open border allows foreign criminals, carriers of communicable diseases, terrorists and other potential threats to enter the country unchecked. Pandering politicians guarantee access to public services for undocumented aliens, to the detriment of those who would enter to work productively, and increasing the burden on taxpayers.
The Principle: The legitimate function and obligation of government to protect the lives, rights and property of its citizens, requires awareness of and control over the entry into our country of foreign nationals who pose a threat to security, health or property. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demands that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders.
Solutions: Borders will be secure, with free entry to those who have demonstrated compliance with certain requirements. The terms and conditions of entry into the United States must be simple and clearly spelled out. Documenting the entry of individuals must be restricted to screening for criminal background and threats to public health and national security. It is the obligation of the prospective immigrant to demonstrate compliance with these requirements. Once effective immigration policies are in place, general amnesties will no longer be necessary.
Transitional Action: Ensure immigration requirements include only appropriate documentation, screening for criminal background and threats to public health and national security. Simplifying the immigration process and redeployment of surveillance technology to focus on the borders will encourage the use of regular and monitored entry points, thus preventing trespass and saving lives. End federal requirements that benefits and services be provided to those in the country illegally. Repeal all measures that punish employers for hiring undocumented workers. Repeal all immigration quotas.
“Yet someone has the balls to tell him that he can’t work here?”
Not someone… the law. And it sounds like you’re breaking the law, too.
Look, nobody’s saying most illegals aren’t “nice” or “work hard” or don’t have a really great reason for coming over here (who wouldn’t?). And anyone who’s anti-immigrant is an asshole. Period. Immigration is a big part of what makes this country great. It’s the fact that ILLEGAL immigrants, by definition, are breaking the law. No matter the reason.
It’s an undeniable fact that illegals compete with low-class Americans for work by offering to do it for less. They also increase the burden on our already strained social services systems, decreasing both availability and quality for our citizens: the very people these programs were designed for.
And if “understandability” is the basis of your argument, why not include the cheating businesses that blatantly hire these illegals? After all, they just want to increase their profit margins (again, who wouldn’t?). But if you think they’re passing on the saving to you, think again. What’s more, they make it almost impossible for law-abiding businesses to compete. And then when these law-abiding businesses complain, they get an earful from the like of you.
As for the wall… of course you can get around, or over, or even through pretty much anything if you put in the time and effort. But the fact remains that if you want to just waltz into this country, you can. Easily. And that understandably unnerves a lot of people. Perhaps a wall isn’t the answer. But I have yet to hear a better one.
Yes, if the Bobs of the world weren’t mowing your lawn you would be paying more to have you lawn mowed. But tough. That’s life. We are all paying slightly, and artificially low prices for certain things. But it would not be much of an effort to readjust, despite the armchair economists’ cries of “wolf!”. And all the arguments about the dollar, and the North American Union are incredibly naive. Do you really think we can compete with China? A slave state? Even if we open the borders and import all the sweatshop labor we can handle, we don’t stand a chance. We can only wait for China, India, et all to catch up to us, and allow the eventuality of global flattening of prices to set in.
In the meantime, we absolutely need to fix our immigration policies. There is no reason that coming to this country legally should be such a nightmare, for skilled and unskilled alike. Although, we should all be reminded that even with our tangled inefficient system America still lets in more immigrants and temporary workers each year than most other countries combined. We are not anti-immigrant. Not even close. But we absolutely should insist that coming here include certain responsibilities, and respect. And that includes coming here the right way, regardless of how annoying it is, and obeying our laws.
It’s really not a lot to ask.
Worst bullshit! ever. P&T decide to set up a series of straw men and attack it with glee. The whole bit about being afraid of different “customs” for example. Can P&T offer any substantial evidence that Italian, German or Irish immigrants believed they were occupying territory that rightfully belonged to their nation of origin? Perhaps they didn’t check the Zogby poll in which 56% of Mexican immigrants expressed this belief. Perhaps they didn’t notice that this sentiment is more than evinced in organizations like MECHA and La Raza. Can P&T give evidence that there was any substantial sentiment that other groups ever express the desire to uproot Europeans and send them back to Europe? Perhaps they haven’t heard these cries from within the “immigration movement.” What they’ve done is ignore all the troubling evidence entirely and simply portray the whole issue as one of being afraid of outsiders. Very poorly done.
I haven’t seen the P&T show but I do not agree with your sentiment. You say we have people mooching off the system? Yes, I agree. So let put them to work. Who are these people mooching off the system? Try prisoners. How much do you think it cost to house, feed ,cloth, and provide medical care for one inmate for a year? Now multiply that number by the amount of inmates. Instead of these inmates shanking one another and having so much time on their hands that they don’t know what to do, how about we stop letting the inmates run the system and start putting them to work. If they worked, they would be too tired to mess with all the gang stuff. My school, Texas A&M was partially built by prisoners. Yes, one of the biggest state colleges in the US was partially built by Texas prisoners. And the buildings they built 100 years ago are still in use. Lets bring back the chain gang and force these “moochers” to work, earn a little money while in jail, and develop a skill. That way, when they get out, they will have developed a work ethic, have a little cash to start over again, and will be less likely to return to jail and cost us more money. Those are the Americans that people claim won’t do the work illegals will do so lets force them to do it. By the way, you might ask how can you force them? Tell them if they don’t do it, then they don’t eat. Now, can you think of a better idea than that?
I think you are mistaken that most Americans are opposed to immigration. Most Americans are in favor of immigration. They are opposed to illegal immigration. Managed, regulated immigration is a good thing. What we have now is not.
forget building a 60 bill 700 mile fence and place 700 snipers a mile apart with some high powerd rifels and good vanteg points and the second
someone steps on our soil with out a green card blow off there toes after a while theyl see we dont want you here your problems ar your fault not ours pissoff.
Dear lying asshole: please show me any evidence that “most Americans are against immigration”. In point of fact, what most Americans oppose is MEXICAN CITIZENS BREAKING OUR LAWS. Maybe you can explain why a Mexican citizen should be able to come here and work Tax-Free, when legal citizens from all over the world, INCLUDING MEXICO, have to follow the rules and help support the nation through income tax?
See, that’s the real issue. I note that NOBODY else seems to have a problem getting citizenship in America… only the illegal Mexican workers. Gee, it’ couldn’t possibly be because they (and the scumbags who employ them) don’t want the tax burden, now could it?
Deport welfare moms, not jose!
This whole “breaking the law” argument is a big “cop out.” When prohibition made it “illegal” to drink booze, so many people flagrantly violated the law that it led to a burgeoning black market, a corruption of our law enforcement institutions, and the eventual repeal of the 18th amendment.
Laws do not exist in a vacuum! They are a reflection of the will and morals of our citizenry. To say that illegals should remain illegals because they are illegal is to advance a circular argument.
Whether you are for or against changing our immigration laws, propose an argument that truly engages the substance of the debate. The starting point of the debate is not whether illegals are breaking the law. That has already been established. The real question is why should we change the law or why should we not change the law.
When someone talkes about immigration, almost everyone thinks about illegal immigration. What about all the legal immigrants who are on a temporary visa and like to stay in this country permanent? Because of the tough requirements it is almost impossible to switch from a temporary visa to a green card! As soon as the Visa expires and can not get extended these legal immigrants become illegal if they stay. On the other side the immigration system supported many of those who came illegal in this country with a Green Card.That’s what I call bullshit. Do it the legal way and you are screwed-do it the illegal way and you get rewarded. Wow, what a system.
It’s pretty wild that many of the same folks who are against a wall between Mexico and the US are completely supporting of building a wall to separate East/West Jerusalem?!?!
As for the idea of a hard working illegal coming here, supporting the idea of ‘Americanism’? Well that’s a different story. I can go to East Kansas City and few, if any, have a job! But they are getting welfare, WIC, MedicAid, etc. not to mention sending they’re children to school here… TAX FREE!
@Hart
Where’s your source that people who come here illegally are rewarded with a green card?
@Will L G
And to you Will L G, where’s your source that many of the same folks who are against a wall between Mexico and the US are completely supporting of building a wall to separate East/West Jerusalem?!?!
I worry that you’re making hasty generalizations based on a handful of people. I like to see sources when people make claims.
Here’s the problem with your cheap lawn guy. If he sends for his wive the couple will, on average, have 3 kids. In California that means 3*$10,000*13 (okay, since the ‘Latino” drop out rate is so high, let’s make that last term 11 , i.e K-10th grade). That’s $240,000 to ‘educate’ his kids. Even if he were paying payroll tax (not likely, I suspect you are giving him case. And that doesn’t count ‘free’ school lunches and breakfasts, WIC, the extra fire and police made necessary by increased population — and the list goes on. You are socializing all those costs onto your neighbors who mow their own lawns.
People are not TV’s or machine tools, they reproduce, they eventually vote. ‘Free trade’ doesn’t apply, A better solution, get out there yourself– it’s good exercise. Or go through the trouble of hiring a local kid –I guarantee if you offer a decent wage, you’ll find an American worker.
As hard as it is to believe, granting all immigrants legal citizenship would solve the problem. There mere presence would offset the fact that they are taking jobs. Quite simply the fact that there here means that they are going to need things that are produced here, like toilet paper, food and housing, so there presence in effect would create jobs to offset there presence. Immigration and issues like it are used to distract Americans from the real problem with the economy which is the fact that it is an economy of exploration. Politicians which are the puppets of exploiters use immigration to detract attention from the fact the real reason the economy is so bad is because it is controlled by a small percentage of the population that has no problem eliminating jobs for short term profits or so they can be sent to slave countries like China for long term obscene profits that only benefit 1% of the population. I don’t propose total socialism as we all know the nightmare that is, but I also don’t think the current economic model we live under is good either. I think it would be far better if places of business could only be owned by the people that work there, and allowed to make decisions though a democratic process about company polices and plans, then be able to compete with other businesses owned by workers in a free market system. If you had a system like that it would make it impossible for someone to enter illegally and work for pennies as it would hurt the people working in there companies and there not going to vote for that.