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	<title>Comments on: Review of Penn and Teller: Bullshit! Immigration</title>
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	<link>http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/</link>
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		<title>By: B</title>
		<link>http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-1174</link>
		<dc:creator>B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Apr 2011 06:40:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/#comment-1174</guid>
		<description>As hard as it is to believe, granting all immigrants legal citizenship would solve the problem.  There mere presence would offset the fact that they are taking jobs.  Quite simply the fact that there here means that they are going to need things that are produced here, like toilet paper, food and housing, so there presence in effect would create jobs to offset there presence.  Immigration and issues like it are used to distract Americans from the real problem with the economy which is the fact that it is an economy of exploration.   Politicians which are the puppets of exploiters use immigration to detract attention from the fact the real reason the economy is so bad is because it is controlled by a small percentage of the population that has no problem eliminating jobs for short term profits or  so they can be sent to slave countries like China for long term obscene profits that only benefit 1% of the population.  I don&#039;t propose total socialism as we all know the nightmare that is, but I also don&#039;t think the current economic model we live under is good either.  I think it would be far better if places of business could only be owned by the people that work there, and allowed to make decisions though a democratic process about company polices and plans, then be able to compete with other businesses owned by workers in a free market system.  If you had a system like that it would make it impossible for someone to enter illegally and work for pennies as it would hurt the people working in there companies and there not going to vote for that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As hard as it is to believe, granting all immigrants legal citizenship would solve the problem.  There mere presence would offset the fact that they are taking jobs.  Quite simply the fact that there here means that they are going to need things that are produced here, like toilet paper, food and housing, so there presence in effect would create jobs to offset there presence.  Immigration and issues like it are used to distract Americans from the real problem with the economy which is the fact that it is an economy of exploration.   Politicians which are the puppets of exploiters use immigration to detract attention from the fact the real reason the economy is so bad is because it is controlled by a small percentage of the population that has no problem eliminating jobs for short term profits or  so they can be sent to slave countries like China for long term obscene profits that only benefit 1% of the population.  I don&#8217;t propose total socialism as we all know the nightmare that is, but I also don&#8217;t think the current economic model we live under is good either.  I think it would be far better if places of business could only be owned by the people that work there, and allowed to make decisions though a democratic process about company polices and plans, then be able to compete with other businesses owned by workers in a free market system.  If you had a system like that it would make it impossible for someone to enter illegally and work for pennies as it would hurt the people working in there companies and there not going to vote for that.</p>
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		<title>By: Mitchell Young</title>
		<link>http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-1129</link>
		<dc:creator>Mitchell Young</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Feb 2011 07:06:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/#comment-1129</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s the problem with your cheap lawn guy. If he sends for his wive the couple will, on average, have 3 kids. In California that means 3*$10,000*13 (okay, since the &#039;Latino&quot; drop out rate is so high, let&#039;s make that last term 11 , i.e K-10th grade). That&#039;s $240,000 to &#039;educate&#039; his kids. Even if he were paying payroll tax (not likely, I suspect you are giving him case. And that doesn&#039;t count &#039;free&#039; school lunches and breakfasts, WIC, the extra fire and police made necessary by increased population -- and the list goes on. You are socializing all those costs onto your neighbors who mow their own lawns.

People are not TV&#039;s or machine tools, they reproduce, they eventually vote. &#039;Free trade&#039; doesn&#039;t apply, A better solution, get out there yourself-- it&#039;s good exercise. Or go through the trouble of hiring a local kid --I guarantee if you offer a decent wage, you&#039;ll find an American worker.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s the problem with your cheap lawn guy. If he sends for his wive the couple will, on average, have 3 kids. In California that means 3*$10,000*13 (okay, since the &#8216;Latino&#8221; drop out rate is so high, let&#8217;s make that last term 11 , i.e K-10th grade). That&#8217;s $240,000 to &#8216;educate&#8217; his kids. Even if he were paying payroll tax (not likely, I suspect you are giving him case. And that doesn&#8217;t count &#8216;free&#8217; school lunches and breakfasts, WIC, the extra fire and police made necessary by increased population &#8212; and the list goes on. You are socializing all those costs onto your neighbors who mow their own lawns.</p>
<p>People are not TV&#8217;s or machine tools, they reproduce, they eventually vote. &#8216;Free trade&#8217; doesn&#8217;t apply, A better solution, get out there yourself&#8211; it&#8217;s good exercise. Or go through the trouble of hiring a local kid &#8211;I guarantee if you offer a decent wage, you&#8217;ll find an American worker.</p>
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		<title>By: Louise</title>
		<link>http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-1018</link>
		<dc:creator>Louise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Sep 2010 17:01:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/#comment-1018</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-162&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Will L G  &lt;/a&gt; 
And to you Will L G, where&#039;s your source that many of the same folks who are against a wall between Mexico and the US are completely supporting of building a wall to separate East/West Jerusalem?!?!

I worry that you&#039;re making hasty generalizations based on a handful of people. I like to see sources when people make claims.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-162" rel="nofollow">@Will L G  </a><br />
And to you Will L G, where&#8217;s your source that many of the same folks who are against a wall between Mexico and the US are completely supporting of building a wall to separate East/West Jerusalem?!?!</p>
<p>I worry that you&#8217;re making hasty generalizations based on a handful of people. I like to see sources when people make claims.</p>
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		<title>By: Louise</title>
		<link>http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-1017</link>
		<dc:creator>Louise</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Sep 2010 16:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/#comment-1017</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-160&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;@Hart  &lt;/a&gt; 
Where&#039;s your source that people who come here illegally are rewarded with a green card?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="#comment-160" rel="nofollow">@Hart  </a><br />
Where&#8217;s your source that people who come here illegally are rewarded with a green card?</p>
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		<title>By: Will L G</title>
		<link>http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-162</link>
		<dc:creator>Will L G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Nov 2009 15:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/#comment-162</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s pretty wild that many of the same folks who are against a wall between Mexico and the US are completely supporting of building a wall to separate East/West Jerusalem?!?!

As for the idea  of a hard working illegal coming here, supporting the idea of &#039;Americanism&#039;? Well that&#039;s a different story. I can go to East Kansas City and few, if any, have a job! But they are getting welfare, WIC, MedicAid, etc. not to mention sending they&#039;re children to school here... TAX FREE!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s pretty wild that many of the same folks who are against a wall between Mexico and the US are completely supporting of building a wall to separate East/West Jerusalem?!?!</p>
<p>As for the idea  of a hard working illegal coming here, supporting the idea of &#8216;Americanism&#8217;? Well that&#8217;s a different story. I can go to East Kansas City and few, if any, have a job! But they are getting welfare, WIC, MedicAid, etc. not to mention sending they&#8217;re children to school here&#8230; TAX FREE!</p>
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		<title>By: Hart</title>
		<link>http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-160</link>
		<dc:creator>Hart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Aug 2008 23:47:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/#comment-160</guid>
		<description>When someone talkes about immigration, almost everyone thinks about illegal immigration. What about all the legal immigrants who are on a temporary visa and like to stay in this country permanent? Because of the tough requirements it is almost impossible to switch from a temporary visa to a green card! As soon as the Visa expires and can not get extended these legal immigrants become illegal if they stay. On the other side the immigration system supported many of those who came illegal in this country with a Green Card.That&#039;s what I call bullshit. Do it the legal way and you are screwed-do it the illegal way and you get rewarded. Wow, what a system.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When someone talkes about immigration, almost everyone thinks about illegal immigration. What about all the legal immigrants who are on a temporary visa and like to stay in this country permanent? Because of the tough requirements it is almost impossible to switch from a temporary visa to a green card! As soon as the Visa expires and can not get extended these legal immigrants become illegal if they stay. On the other side the immigration system supported many of those who came illegal in this country with a Green Card.That&#8217;s what I call bullshit. Do it the legal way and you are screwed-do it the illegal way and you get rewarded. Wow, what a system.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-159</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 20:09:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/#comment-159</guid>
		<description>This whole &quot;breaking the law&quot; argument is a big &quot;cop out.&quot;  When prohibition made it &quot;illegal&quot; to drink booze, so many people flagrantly violated the law that it led to a burgeoning black market, a corruption of our law enforcement institutions, and the eventual repeal of the 18th amendment.

Laws do not exist in a vacuum!  They are a reflection of the will and morals of our citizenry.  To say that illegals should remain illegals because they are illegal is to advance a circular argument.

Whether you are for or against changing our immigration laws, propose an argument that truly engages the substance of the debate.  The starting point of the debate is not whether illegals are breaking the law.  That has already been established.  The real question is  why should we change the law or why should we not change the law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This whole &#8220;breaking the law&#8221; argument is a big &#8220;cop out.&#8221;  When prohibition made it &#8220;illegal&#8221; to drink booze, so many people flagrantly violated the law that it led to a burgeoning black market, a corruption of our law enforcement institutions, and the eventual repeal of the 18th amendment.</p>
<p>Laws do not exist in a vacuum!  They are a reflection of the will and morals of our citizenry.  To say that illegals should remain illegals because they are illegal is to advance a circular argument.</p>
<p>Whether you are for or against changing our immigration laws, propose an argument that truly engages the substance of the debate.  The starting point of the debate is not whether illegals are breaking the law.  That has already been established.  The real question is  why should we change the law or why should we not change the law.</p>
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		<title>By: Kyle</title>
		<link>http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-158</link>
		<dc:creator>Kyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 23:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/#comment-158</guid>
		<description>Deport welfare moms, not jose! :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deport welfare moms, not jose! <img src='http://vallery.net/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Maven</title>
		<link>http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-157</link>
		<dc:creator>Maven</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:56:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/#comment-157</guid>
		<description>Dear lying asshole: please show me any evidence that &quot;most Americans are against immigration&quot;.  In point of fact, what most Americans oppose is MEXICAN CITIZENS BREAKING OUR LAWS.  Maybe you can explain why a Mexican citizen should be able to come here and work Tax-Free, when legal citizens from all over the world, INCLUDING MEXICO, have to follow the rules and help support the nation through income tax?

See, that&#039;s the real issue.  I note that NOBODY else seems to have a problem getting citizenship in America... only the illegal Mexican workers.  Gee, it&#039; couldn&#039;t possibly be because they (and the scumbags who employ them) don&#039;t want the tax burden, now could it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear lying asshole: please show me any evidence that &#8220;most Americans are against immigration&#8221;.  In point of fact, what most Americans oppose is MEXICAN CITIZENS BREAKING OUR LAWS.  Maybe you can explain why a Mexican citizen should be able to come here and work Tax-Free, when legal citizens from all over the world, INCLUDING MEXICO, have to follow the rules and help support the nation through income tax?</p>
<p>See, that&#8217;s the real issue.  I note that NOBODY else seems to have a problem getting citizenship in America&#8230; only the illegal Mexican workers.  Gee, it&#8217; couldn&#8217;t possibly be because they (and the scumbags who employ them) don&#8217;t want the tax burden, now could it?</p>
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		<title>By: dan</title>
		<link>http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/comment-page-1/#comment-156</link>
		<dc:creator>dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Aug 2007 19:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://vallery.net/2007/04/26/review-of-penn-and-teller-bullshit-immigration/#comment-156</guid>
		<description>forget building a 60 bill 700 mile fence and place 700 snipers a mile apart with some high powerd rifels and good vanteg points and the second
someone steps on our soil with out a green card blow off there toes after a while theyl see we dont want you here your problems ar your fault not ours pissoff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>forget building a 60 bill 700 mile fence and place 700 snipers a mile apart with some high powerd rifels and good vanteg points and the second<br />
someone steps on our soil with out a green card blow off there toes after a while theyl see we dont want you here your problems ar your fault not ours pissoff.</p>
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